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July 03, 2011

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The "debt" talked about in the Perry decision is debt to a creditor that has already been issued (specifically in Perry he wanted to redeem the debt for gold as the debt said it could be). Spending that hasn’t yet been paid is not "debt". Debt requires a creditor, from whom you borrowed money.

If Obama wants to say "look, we don't have enough money coming in taxes to pay the interest/principle on the debt so we had to sell off US assets like the 300 billion dollars in gold we have", maybe he could make that argument, but
the Constitution only makes a requirement for debt, not spending. And even then, it only says that it shall not be
questioned, it doesn’t authorize any additional debt nor
grant a power to the president to authorize any.

I've read the Perry decision, and you can't see the forest for the trees. Obama is using the debt ceiling crisis -- a crisis entirely of his own making -- in order to seize even more power from Congress.

You are being played.

Financial obligations are created when Congress passes a law and it is signed by the President.

Obligations like SS, Medicare, pensions etc are thus legal and must be fulfilled.

You may not like it and I would prefer the 2 sides work out a balanced deal but if that cannot happen the President has no choice but to uphold his Constitutional duty.

If there is a conflict between a law like the ceiling and the Constitution the latter is governing law. That is basic Con law in any issue.

Read the Perry opinion. it is specific to the debt issue and that is what any President is authorized to do.

John, if you do understand this, then President Obama could invoke any such supposed constitutional obligation to enable him to disregard Congress and do whatever he wants -- and THAT is the whole point.

Marc, what is ridiculous is the Democrats' assertion that the 14th Amendment would authorize President Obama to break the debt limit, that is borrow money on his own, without congressional authorization. Even without additional borrowing authority, there is much more than enough tax revenue to service federal government debt.

Ridiculous argument.

The "debt" that cannot be ignored, Constitutionally, is money that has already been borrowed after being authorized by Congress. In other words, the bonds that have already been sold must be honored.

It would not include money that has not yet been borrowed. The debt that must be honored is that which is "authorized by law". Borrowing above the debt limit is specifically not authorized by law, because that borrowing is the sole purview of Congress, not the President acting as dictator.

We do not have to honor debts that have not yet been incurred. That is ridiculous.

The argument that we cannot do everything we want to without borrowing more does not neccessarily mean more borrowing is the only option. Congress can reduce spending, raise taxes, sell public property, etc.

There are many ways of raising revenue. This is a truth not changed by the fact that Congress hasn't figured that out yet.

If I understand this the Constituti­on trumps any other law like the debt ceiling.

The debt ceiling raise is needed NOT for new spending but for what has been already authorized by Congress (budget, SS et al), so the President has 2 duties:
1) Uphold laws that have been passed
2) Debt has already been legislated so it is valid and "shall not be questioned­.

Here is the relevant case law:

PERRY V. UNITED STATES, 294 U. S. 330 (1935)

...The contention necessaril­y imports that the Congress can disregard the obligation­s of the government at its discretion­, and that, when the government borrows money, the credit of the United States is an illusory pledge…

The Constituti­on gives to the Congress the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States, an unqualifie­d power, a power vital to the government­, upon which in an extremity its very life may depend. The binding quality of the promise of the United States is of the essence of the credit which is so pledged. Having this power to authorize the issue of definite obligation­s for the payment of money borrowed, the Congress has not been vested with authority to alter or destroy those obligation­s.

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